Seek and ye shall find. But what shall ye find?
A friend apparently ran afoul of the quotes engine in my blog.
I noticed a very clever (albeit fallacious) quip at the bottom of your blog: “Absence of evidence for God is evidence of absence, when the evidence should be there and is not.”
Sometimes evidence is missed by inept and misdirected investigation.
Thanks for pointing out that I’m unobservant and misdirected. I’ll have to remember this opening line the next time I’m in a philosophical discussion. (I’m probably also arrogant and insensitive, due to my godless nature. But, I digress.)
So you’re saying I’m not looking right? The right way, the way in which I see whatever I want to see? You’re telling me that the right way is to look such that I see what you want me to see? I just want to see what is actually there.
[Note: What usually happens at this point is that Christians will all nod to each other saying “But there is plenty of evidence for the existence of god.” “Uh huh, there is!” “There is!” “Yeah!” Nobody will produce any evidence at this point.]
There’s an old country-western song, “Lookin’ for love in all the wrong places.” Al Capone, the notorious Mafia don, could not be convicted for “lack of evidence.” They finally got him on tax fraud, but they never could prove his other criminal activities. O.J. Simpson was declared innocent for “lack of conclusive evidence.” ( I will spare you countless other examples of apparent “lack of evidence.” )
You’re talking “legal evidence” here. There was “no evidence” against Capone because nobody would testify against him. It doesn’t mean there wasn’t plenty of real evidence. Do you believe Al Capone was a Mafia Don because in your heart of hearts you “just know?” No, you’ve heard dozens of reports and there are books about it with information from dozens of different observers.
Unlike Al Capone, God has not threatened to kill anybody who turns up proof of his existence; this is different. There just isn’t any proof to see.
I won’t go into the hundreds of other examples of trials in which we’ve let people go just because, in America, we can’t execute people based on whether it “feels like” they probably are guilty.
Jesus said, “He who has seen me has seen the Father.”
I have not seen Jesus. Have you? (Pics or it didn’t happen.)
He is the light of the world, and makes it possible to experience the presence of God. Your blog responder who had no luck with “Seek and ye shall find, knock, and it shall be opened unto you” may not have searched hard enough and may have given up too soon. Jesus said, “I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved.” Read John 10, and get back to me.
How many times have I heard this accusation? “You didn’t look hard enough!” or its close relative “You were never a true believer.” Seriously…do you really think I haven’t done any reading? The more I read the less I believe.
Let’s read John 10 together. [Get your Bibles folks! KJV reference edition for me!]
It starts with threats. “There is no other path than me,” says our charismatic cult leader (and barn door) Jesus. “If you come by any other path, you are no better than a robber.” Then a short story about how screwed you’ll be if you follow someone else. But lest you think he’s a tyrant for this, “I am the good shepherd.” Yes, you see it’s for our own good. If you follow someone else, they’ll desert you in your time of need. But he’s committed. “I would die for you” he says. Oooh, that’s good. Willing to die for me is very convincing. (Although it turns out to be just emotional manipulation, and he doesn’t really follow through, see http://162.243.68.163/?p=1582 for my opinion on the Easter Sacrifice.)
“The works I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness to me.” Well… of course we have the bible’s account of miracles, but then if you go through the old testament you have a LOT of interesting accounts,.. the question of miracles in the bible is a completely different discussion. Suffice to say here that if you made the same claims today nobody would believe a word of it. Which is why we need a 2000 year old book, unverifiable, written in a time before cell phone cameras, as a basis for our religion.
“But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep.” Oh that’s good. Telling us why we don’t believe. I would say nonbelievers don’t believe because you haven’t given them reason to believe. But Jesus tells us that the real reason is because nonbelievers are “not real Christians,” protecting his power base. Now those who follow can summarily dismiss skeptics as “not good enough.” This of course makes them feel good, and lets them continue believing what they want.
“And I give unto them eternal life.” Conveniently unverifiable promise. Nuff said.
No wonder they wanted to stone him. “We’ve heard this one before!” There were dozens of Christs in those times (Christ = “the anointed”) and hundreds of prophets. And, in those days, the peanut gallery didn’t just throw peanuts. But he gives them pause with the convincingness of his next words.
Here follows the famous but not very well-written speech in which he basically says “I am the son of god because I do miraculous works and vice versa”. Since he doesn’t actually do any magical works at this point, and this claim is in fact blasphemy, the crowd decides to stone him after all. He uses his divine powers to run away successfully, and went “beyond” Jordan instead, where, as it is vaguely stated, “many believed on him there”. Jesus escapes to greener pastures.
To recap: In John 10, Jesus tells us that he’s the only path, he promises us eternal life, gives believers an easy way to dismiss the questions of nonbelievers, and claims to be the son of god. The crowd is utterly unconvinced and tries to kill him. He runs away.
This is supposed to convince me of the truth of Jesus’ divinity?
This is the real problem with appealing to the Bible and only the Bible as your single source of truth. I don’t believe it is a divinely inspired document. Why would I? Because you told me it is? Because I want it to be divinely inspired? It sure doesn’t convince me on its own merits.
I’m not claiming to have higher truth here. I’m not claiming to have magical insight that lets me know things other men do not. You are the one making these claims. So? Back it up with something other than just this one self-contradictory collection of stories assembled by a group of priests, with the tie-breaker vote cast by a ruler. Give me something other than this very interesting but clearly unmagical book. Your ancient book, while interesting reading, just doesn’t really convince. It’s fun to believe it and think you’re “in the club” sometimes, but it’s just a game.
